It's time for Andy to get "MacPhailed"

[Stotle]

Not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't that what Mr. MacPhail is paid to do? He's been here quite a while. I think he and his other front office types have done a pretty mediocre job of supplementing our farm system with new talent via trades, the draft, AND international signings.

Unfortunately, we are still sitting in the "let's try to get to .500" mindset instead of taking the lumps for a few years and building a rock-solid organization from the ground up.

I don't disagree. I guess my issue is that I had this past off-season as the projected "make a big move" off-season as of a couple years ago. After last year's debacle (for which I certainly hold the front office accountable) I still felt comfortable that the 2012 off-season could salvage this "window" offered by having Matusz/Wieters/Britton/Jones/Reimold/Tillman/Arrieta/Bergesen/Johnson/Bell/Snyder cheap and under control. If the team isn't competing next year, I dont' think they will with this core (some of them will get extended, but a nubmer will need to be moved). That's the poitn where I think there is an imperitive to make a move in the direction set by the front offfice.

I don't have an issue with people wanting a change now. I just personally would like to see for sure that this approach has failed. In order for me to see that, I think this front office needs the 2012 off-season.

[TonySoprano]

JTrea is right guys.

Whether it happens now or at the end of the season, MacPhail doesn't deserve to be back. His time in Baltimore has been a McFailure.

Who would Angelos hire now, not postseason, but now? No chance Angelos fires Andy midseason. Whether or not the two sides agree to, or want, an extension is a different story. Andy will be here at least until his current contracts expires. Bank on it.

[Gurgi]

Sure, if you want to look at it that way. I'm not always in a mood to lump together "much better" and "abject failure". It's depressing, and I don't feel like being bitter all the time.

I dont FEEL like being bitter. I just cant help it.

I really bought into the Cavalry showing up and leading us to the promised land of RESPECTABILITY. Then they show up and promptly get injured(Matusz), lose velocity and show no damn control(Tillman), have bone spurs and walk too many people(Arrieta), have a wonderful rookie season then get injured and show zero of what made me like him(Bergensen). Then there is Wieters who even if he is a wonderful defensive catcher he has NOT been as advertised with the bat. Not even close. And he possibly is injured also.

So I am bitter.

[JamesI]

I think we can pretty much all agree MacPhail has not done enough, though he has been better than what preceded him. Is it time for him to leave, probably. But the real question that needs to be answered is who will PA replace him with?

PA will want someone who agrees with him, who does stuff the same way MacPhail was doing it (not spending a ton on "premium" talent, not investing a ton into prospects in other countries). I think we'll find MacPhail leaves and the replacement is no better, unless PA really shocks us.

[Singleton]

I dont FEEL like being bitter. I just cant help it.

I really bought into the Cavalry showing up and leading us to the promised land of RESPECTABILITY. Then they show up and promptly get injured(Matusz), lose velocity and show no damn control(Tillman), have bone spurs and walk too many people(Arrieta), have a wonderful rookie season then get injured and show zero of what made me like him(Bergensen). Then there is Wieters who even if he is a wonderful defensive catcher he has NOT been as advertised with the bat. Not even close. And he possibly is injured also.

So I am bitter.

The cavalry arrived and is doing quite well (Arrieta, Britton, Matusz (injuires are minor), A. Jones, Weiters). You can nitpick about these five but, come on, they're all young and doing well. Injuries happen. See Brett Anderson. Clay Buckholtz. Phil Hughes. Joba. Mauer, etc. We don't have to be so negative we can't see the good.

The problem is, the cavalry is too small. There needs to be a 2nd and 3rd wave and there isn't one on the immediate horizon.

That is where your bitterness and depression should come in. Feel better?

[Gurgi]

The cavalry arrived and is doing quite well (Arrieta, Britton, Matusz (injuires are minor), A. Jones, Weiters). You can nitpick about these five but, come on, they're all young and doing well. Injuries happen. See Brett Anderson. Clay Buckholtz. Phil Hughes. Joba. Mauer, etc. We don't have to be so negative we can't see the good.

The problem is, the cavalry is too small. There needs to be a 2nd and 3rd wave and there isn't one on the immediate horizon.

That is where your bitterness and depression should come in. Feel better?

Not a bit. I have already accounted for the lack of a second and third wave. So my depression is wide and deep. It is not shortsighted. It is fairly well informed and thought through.

[Singleton]

I don't disagree. I guess my issue is that I had this past off-season as the projected "make a big move" off-season as of a couple years ago. After last year's debacle (for which I certainly hold the front office accountable) I still felt comfortable that the 2012 off-season could salvage this "window" offered by having Matusz/Wieters/Britton/Jones/Reimold/Tillman/Arrieta/Bergesen/Johnson/Bell/Snyder cheap and under control. If the team isn't competing next year, I dont' think they will with this core (some of them will get extended, but a nubmer will need to be moved). That's the poitn where I think there is an imperitive to make a move in the direction set by the front offfice.

I don't have an issue with people wanting a change now. I just personally would like to see for sure that this approach has failed. In order for me to see that, I think this front office needs the 2012 off-season.

I pretty much agree with this. We do have more young talent than we have had in a long time. That's the good news. The bad news is that it's not nearly enough and it is almost impossible to see much more coming through the system for several years.

I don't know if i necessarily agree that the window on this group will close in a year or so. That really depends upon whether the owner will keep them but I do agree that a huge opportunity was lost last offseason and another will present itself in the one coming.

I guess at the end of the day I believe that AM is smart and knowledgeable and good at implementing the plan he put in place -- and was likely hired to do. The problem is -- his plan isn't working. If he's willing to modify his plan - push to make more trades that may involve risk. Push to sign a few players who need to be added, etc. -- I would be let him have a shot at it.

If he told me, his plan is working and it's "steady as she goes" -- well -- he'd have to be the one to go.

[Singleton]

Not a bit. I have already accounted for the lack of a second and third wave. So my depression is wide and deep. It is not shortsighted. It is fairly well informed and thought through.

I was joking about the "feeling better" bit. Your previous post was focused on injuries and non stellar performance of the first wave specifically citing Matusz, Weiters, Arrieta, etc.

My point is these guys are doing pretty well. It's the lack of others that are the problem.

[Gurgi]

It really hurts in a big way that Snyder cant play much past AA and Bell is really not a prospect at this point. These guys if they were at least replacement level talent would of saved us having to trade away Hernandez. And what would it be like to have that big guy in the pen?

Add that Reimold got involved with a horrible woman and then was injured leading to a nightmare of a season. Pie cant show progress. He actually seems less than he was at the end of 09. When I thought he really might be a major talent ready to burst on the scene.

It has been almost. And I say almost a worst case scenario type situation.

Jones is better, Britton has been solid, Hardy looks legit. That perhaps the only really nice parts of this season.

[Dipper9]

To all of those who think the AL East predicament is unfair, I give you Vince McMahon at his best...

[Slappy]

Two constants since I started reading this board 3 years ago. JTrea bashing MacPhail and the OH bashing JTrea.

But will anyone step up and acknowledge that maybe he's been right and MacPhail's era has been a dismal failure to this point? W-L wise, it's one of the worst 4 year periods in franchise history.

[Dipper9]

Two constants since I started reading this board 3 years ago. JTrea bashing MacPhail and the OH bashing JTrea.

But will anyone step up and acknowledge that maybe he's been right and MacPhail's era has been a dismal failure to this point? W-L wise, it's one of the worst 4 year periods in franchise history.

YES. Someone has admitted this in all 4 million threads about how much Trea hates MacPhail.

[Sports Guy]

Two constants since I started reading this board 3 years ago. JTrea bashing MacPhail and the OH bashing JTrea.

But will anyone step up and acknowledge that maybe he's been right and MacPhail's era has been a dismal failure to this point? W-L wise, it's one of the worst 4 year periods in franchise history.

I have always likened Jtrea to WNST.

Their general, basic overall message is right....but its how they get to that message and the reasoning behind it that is so poor.

[ChaosLex]

I have always likened Jtrea to WNST.

Their general, basic overall message is right....but its how they get to that message and the reasoning behind it that is so poor.

That's a good analogy.

And for the record I like Trea. Even though he drives me nuts at times.

[Singleton]

Two constants since I started reading this board 3 years ago. JTrea bashing MacPhail and the OH bashing JTrea.

But will anyone step up and acknowledge that maybe he's been right and MacPhail's era has been a dismal failure to this point? W-L wise, it's one of the worst 4 year periods in franchise history.

Wins and losses are fact and can't be disputed. What many of us try and point out every time this thread is started -- which is about once a week -- is that you can't look exclusively at wins and losses. You have to look at talent acquired and developed.

Dayton Moore is in his 5th year as GM of the Royals. His teams don't win. His team isn't likely to win this year and it wouldn't be surprising if they ended up with a worse record than the Orioles. Should he be fired? Probably not because the talent in his system is unmatched.

AM hasn't put together a system anywhere near the quality of the Royals but it is much better than it has been. Is that good enough to overcome the w/l record to this point? Probably not but it needs to be recognized.

If such threads were more balanced, it probably wouldn't provoke the endless back and forth. Of course, this is a message board, so maybe some people enjoy it.